It's hard for NHL players not to sound defensive when talking about the lockout. They know that fans, as Sharks forward Wayne Primeau put it, ''are jabbing us, ripping on everybody.''

But players say they're fighting the salary cap that owners are demanding for reasons that go beyond limits on their own paychecks.

They talk about the need to do what's right for the game. They contend a cap would force higher roster turnover that would damage both the caliber of play and the bond between teams and fans.

They pay attention to daily developments such as the small-group discussions Thursday night where New Jersey Devils General Manager Lou Lamoriello reportedly was trying to help broker a compromise.

Earlier this week, the players showed no inclination to cave. If neither side does, the NHL will become the first pro league to wipe out an entire season.

''We've said over and over that we're not going to take a cap,'' Sharks captain Patrick Marleau said, ''and they keep putting it in there.''

Players spending the lockout in San Jose -- a group that now includes Scott Hannan, Kyle McLaren, Mike Rathje, Brad Stuart and Alyn McCauley, as well as former Sharks Mike Ricci and Owen Nolan -- practice together two or three times a week at Logitech Ice.

But it's hardly the standard morning skate.

Earlier this week, for example, Primeau, Marleau and Hannan paid $310 an hour for ice time on the rink where the Sharks normally practice. Other skaters joined in for a three-on-three scrimmage.

When they were finished, the Sharks couldn't head for their wood-paneled locker room with its TVs and sound system. That's off limits. Instead, they showered and changed in a bare-bones room normally used by pee-wees and squirts.

Such is life in Week 19 of the lockout.

For the most part, players not skating in Europe or the minors have settled into routines that include occasional travel to Canada.

Primeau and his brother, Keith, returned to their Ontario roots for a charity game in Oshawa. Marleau, who spent the holidays with family in Saskatchewan, has been changing plumbing fixtures and painting walls in the house he and his wife, Christina, share. Hannan has hit the slopes, snowboarding in British Columbia and at Lake Tahoe.

''Other than that, I'm just trying to skate and keep ready,'' Hannan said.

Players don't buy the idea that the old system forced teams to spend heavily to be successful -- ''Teams go to the Stanley Cup finals and their payrolls aren't over $30 million,'' Primeau said. But, they say, it's not as if they don't recognize the league's economic problems.

They point to their union's last offer -- a 24 percent rollback of salaries, a luxury tax and other tweaks designed to keep payroll down -- as evidence of their willingness to address the issues.

''To tell you the truth, when I first heard it, I thought it was what they were offering,'' said Primeau, who was set to earn $1.05 million this season. ''I was stunned at the amount of rollback, but if it was what it was going to take to get things under way, I was pleased.''

The owners rejected the union's proposal Dec.14, sticking to their position that salaries must be tied to a fixed percentage of revenue. The league countered with a proposal that coupled the 24 percent rollback with a cap -- and the union immediately rejected that.

''Our proposal that we last gave touched on everything they thought was wrong,'' said Marleau, who would have been making $2.45 million this season.

So why do they consider a salary cap -- already a staple in the NBA and NFL -- wrong for hockey?

Marleau acknowledged that personal economics is part of it.

''You don't have a marketplace,'' he said. ''If somebody thinks you're worth something, you should be able to get that.''

Scott Thornton has talked in the past about his desire to play till he's 40 -- and how a cap would reduce that likelihood as teams tend to cut veterans. Primeau and Hannan look to other sports with a salary cap and see increased player turnover as salary structure, not team needs, forces general managers to shuffle players.

Fans wouldn't identify with players as much ''because guys would be getting moved a lot more to fit on the payroll,'' Primeau said. ''I think some fans would agree with that. They'd basically be cheering for the logo. It changes a lot of things.''

From the NHL's perspective, fans already do that. Yes, players are the product, one league spokesman acknowledged, but it's the uniforms they wear that pack arenas.

Primeau sees it differently. ''You have the star players that bring people out and every town has fans who enjoy watching certain players,'' he said. ''I don't agree with that at all.''

Players still cling to the idea the season could be salvaged, even after a Jan.21 message from Trevor Linden, the president of their union, indicated otherwise.

''There's always been a little bit of me that believes the season can't be lost,'' Primeau said, ''but the way it's looking now, it's pretty glum.''

The handful of Sharks who maintain a residence in the South Bay skate at Logitech Ice twice a week. They each contribute to the cost of renting the same sheet they used to practice on for free.

Shinny hockey has replaced organized drills, work on special teams and bag skating. There are no coaches, no whistles and nary a fan in the stands, otherwise typical of Sharks practices.

And, after four months of the same routine, the players leave the rink with a sinking feeling that only intensifies after every get-together.

"The writing is on the wall,'' Mike Ricci said. "No one's stupid. Everyone knows what's going to happen.''

Ricci signed a two-year deal with Phoenix after last season, but has yet to relocate for good reason. He, like most, think the NHL season is over even if Commissioner Gary Bettman hasn't made that announcement.

"I think we're all sick of them insulting our intelligence,'' said Ricci, who joined Sharks Patrick Marleau, Scott Thornton, Alyn McCauley, Kyle McLaren and Wayne Primeau on Friday.

Today is the 122nd day of the lockout, a stoppage that has long surpassed the 103-day delay in 1995 that yielded a 48-game, all-intraconference schedule once a collective bargaining agreement was achieved.

Average player earnings increased from $733,000 to $1.83 million over the 10-year period of the CBA that expired in September, inflation the league says it can't and won't tolerate. No meaningful negotiations have taken place as both sides remain committed to their principles. Owners want cost certainty and the players will have nothing to do with a salary cap.

"I wanted to play in the NHL, and I'm sure there's a lot of younger kids who want to do the same,'' McCauley said. "I would not like to be the reason there's no NHL. But the salary-cap issue is a nonissue for the players. It just makes absolutely no sense for us to (agree to) a salary cap.''

A $2.1-billion-per-year industry has ground to a halt, and the NHL is all but certain of becoming the first major professional league to cancel an entire season because of a stalemate.

"Ultimately, I feel like there's not going to be a season,'' Primeau said."Through December I was probably checking the Internet every day to see what was going on. Now it's to the point if something happens, it happens. I don't get too caught up in the stuff.''

Marleau hasn't given up altogether, but he's getting close.

"I'm still holding on for hope,'' he said. "If something is going to happen, it has to happen pretty quick. I'm thinking we'll know by the end of January.''

With canceling the 2004-05 season a near foregone conclusion, what next? Should we believe Wayne Gretzky, who said two weeks ago that next season could also be in doubt? Carolina Hurricanes owner Peter Karmanos Jr., echoed similar sentiments, telling the Toronto Sun last week he'd be willing to risk not playing another season to get what owners want.

"I can't see them starting training camp next year, that's for sure,'' Primeau said. "As many guys as you see in Europe right now you might see even more.''

"I kind of see ourselves at this position next year, but hopefully having something to work on and being closer to playing games,'' McCauley added. "But at the same time, when is a pressure point?''

While neither side displays any sign of urgency, there will be no incentive to return to the bargaining table for months if Bettman cancels the season. For that reason, the season might instead simply slip by. Saturday marked what would have been San Jose's 43rd game of 82.

"We don't want it to close, but if that's what's left, why wait?'' Ricci said. "If they're going to make us an offer, then make it. Everything's done, everyone's played their cards. We're not going to fold and if they're not going to fold ... well, it's gotten to the point where it's frustrating.''

Thornton will soon become the ninth Shark to take his game overseas, and McLaren might follow to join the more than 300 NHLers playing in Europe.

"All we can do is skate, work out and be ready to go,'' McLaren said. "Everybody here wants to play.''

It's over now, over for Gary Bettman, over for the zealots on the Board of Governors who have hijacked the NHL for their own greedy purposes. It's over for them, over for their narrow, transparent union-busting agenda even as they send out Bill Daly to issue hysterical statements that make him sound like Ron Ziegler fronting for Dick Nixon during Watergate.

It's over for them, they are beginning to know it and that goes a long way in explaining why Bettman so clumsily canceled the Board meeting that had been scheduled for this coming Friday in Manhattan. The commissioner is losing control of the message, he can't be sure who's going to say what when, who's going to leak what to whom.

He canceled the meeting because he has no answers to give the growing number of owners restless with his strategy, because he was afraid that challenges to his authority would become public the moment those inside the room were able to reach their cell phones. While there may not yet be enough of an opposition to stage a palace coup, the commissioner and his band of hawks are becoming increasingly isolated in their Sixth Avenue bunker.

It has been over for this band since Dec. 14, since that day's grossly miscalculated counter-proposal to the offer put on the table five days earlier by the PA. Bettman cites unanimous support, but the fact is that he was warned by several Board members that his reorganization of the union's offer of a 24-percent giveback would infuriate, galvanize and unite the players behind Bob Goodenow as never before.

It has been over for Bettman, Jeremy Jacobs and this band since Dec. 14, but now they are beginning to know it. If not before, they have known it since early last week when Wayne Gretzky delivered a public message to the Board by speaking a brutal truth that infuriated the cartel during his visit to the World Junior Championships.

"I'm scared we could be looking at a year, year-and-a-half, two years," The Wise One said. "[If there's no deal now] we're going to be back where we were last Sept. 15 come this Sept. 15."

Gretzky sees the landscape the way he saw the ice. He understands. Once this season slips away, leverage swings to the players. There's no pressure on them over the summer. They don't get paid from the middle of April until the middle of October, anyway. Meanwhile, the burden will be on the franchises to sell tickets, to sell sponsorships, to maintain or establish television and radio contracts, to keep a semblance of their organizations intact.

But beyond that, beyond losing revenues from ticket sales and sponsorships, beyond losing staff who cannot afford to continue to work at reduced rates, the teams and the league stand to lose even more precious assets: their players. They may be so ignorant and arrogant in the NHL offices on both Sixth Avenue in New York and on Bay Street in Toronto to suggest that their players are no more than replaceable, interchangeable parts, but no one with a brain really believes the league can reopen without dozens of its most recognizable athletes.

On July 1, the following players will be among those without NHL contracts, and thus will able to sign deals to play anywhere in the world whether or not there is a 2005-06:

Goaltenders: Mikka Kiprusoff, Roberto Luongo, Jose Theodore, Robert Esche, Rick DiPietro.

Defensemen: Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Brian Leetch, Jay Bouwmeester, Eric Brewer, Brad Stuart, Chris Chelios, Kim Johnsson, Kenny Jonsson, Roman Hamrlik, Alexei Zhitnik, Rostislav Klesla.

Centers: Peter Forsberg, Joe Thornton, Vincent Lecavalier, Eric Lindros, Scott Gomez, Jason Spezza, Michael York, Patrick Marleau, Olli Jokinen, Pavol Demitra, Sidney Crosby.

Wingers: Jarome Iginla, Patrik Elias, Markus Naslund, Ilya Kovalchuk, Martin St. Louis, Dany Heatley, Milan Hejduk, Rick Nash, Paul Kariya, Zigmund Palffy, Marian Hossa, Martin Havlat, Alex Tanguay, Alex Kovalev, Henrik Zetterberg, Ryan Smyth, Michael Ryder, Alexander Ovechkin, Evgeny Malkin.

These players are not going to wait out the summer to see whether there's a negotiated CBA in place for 2005-06. European teams will be aggressive in trying to sign these marquee players to long-term deals. The 2006 Olympics beckon. It is not unreasonable that the PA will be able to establish at least a limited, sponsored North American link to a European league. This is what is at risk now for the NHL.

There's a deal to be made here, and it is to be made using the union's Dec. 9 proposal as the framework for negotiations. The PA should volunteer to come to New York and stay until an agreement is reached that will save not only this season, but the NHL itself, and from itself and its increasingly isolated commissioner.